Talk:Central California

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This is driving me bananas

Every citation in the article seems to include Kern County as part of Central California, yet as defined in the article and according to "most sources" (undefined), Central California does not include Kern County. That definition has to do with splitting the state up evenly by latitude, but does anyone actually do that? I don't see that anywhere but Wp, which is not how things are supposed to work. Thmazing (talk) 21:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

Why the disambig? I was noticing going through the Central CA links that many of them meant the Central Valley, and not the Central Coast, so I disambiged and tried to direct most of the "What Links Here"s away. Simple as that. -- Jjjsixsix ^(talk)/_(contribs) 01:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The question then comes up, should there be an article on Central California to go along with Southern California and Northern California? Dbiel 21:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Googling for "Central California":

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,450,000 for "central california".

So, yes, there should be an article on Central California to go along with Southern California and Northern California. --Born2cycle (talk) 23:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded description

I expanded and clarified the description of Central California, basically as the part of Northern California south of the Bay Area and the Delta and west of the Sierra crest. It can still use more work, especially more references. But for now the fact that it fits intuitively in the middle third of the state by latitude, and matches where I'm aware the term is actually used, should keep it non-controversial while people look for more references to improve it. Ikluft (talk) 06:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why would Central California be a sub-section of Northern California, rather than its own region outright? To look at this in a manner in which opinion doesn't matter, if you take the actual, physical coordinates of California, it runs from 32° 32′ N to 42° N. The half-way point, physically, would then be around 37° - very near San Francisco! If the state is going to be divided into two, that's one thing and subject to its own debate. For the purpose of this article, in which the state is being divided into 3, it seems unnecessary (not to mention physically inaccurate) to simultaneously argue that Central California is for some reason also part of Northern California. Udibi (talk) 00:24, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Besides, many parts of Central California are plopped into Southern California when someone divides the state into only two pieces. This makes little if any sense. Thmazing (talk) 21:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

center is exactly 36 deg 30 min n, at Carmel--but as you say not far from the City This would amaze most Californians as San Francisco is definitely considered Northern Ca, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.99.130.134 (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded article

I added a Geobox, map image, and new sections on Geography, Education and Transportation. I tried to keep everything so it's non-controversial - but the article needs help with references. Ikluft (talk) 14:03, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't state a single unambiguous definition of the region unless referenced. Should do some research on where and how term actually used. --JWB (talk) 20:39, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's still in progress. You're welcome to participate. Ikluft (talk) 02:53, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Definitive exclusion of the Central Coast makes no sense. --JWB (talk) 20:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a matter of finding references to places in the Central Coast calling themselves Central California. I thought the same thing when I started looking for refs for this article and so far have came around to agreeing with it. Find the references. Ikluft (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some top results (first page) from image search for Central California:

--JWB (talk) 07:08, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's thinking in the right direction. But there's more to get this right. Arbitrary map images drawn around the middle of the state aren't going to do well by Wikipedia standards. Though that one from the state gov't has some possible usefulness. In order to find references actually about the subject instead of just including the wording, we should find references from counties and cities which refer to themselves as being in Central California. You can see I've started that - it isn't done. But that's what I think will build as solid a definition as we're going to find in a slippery subject like regions not bounded by a single governmental or influential entity. In some cases regional organizations and state government region definitions can help. However, I think you'll find that residents of Kern County are inclined to call themselves in Southern California and SLO County in the Central Coast or Southern California. So without that as a foundation, they're not good candidates to include in a WP definition of Central California, even though it intuitively looks central on a map. Ikluft (talk) 07:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Self-identification is one kind of information that would be good to have but not the only kind or even necessarily the most important. Also, even in regions where the term Central California gets the most use, it is probably not the term people are most likely to think of when asked what their region is - I would expect San Joaquin Valley or Central Valley would be ahead.

I'm not arguing for definite inclusion of the Central Coast either - I'm saying the article should stress the vagueness of the concept, and reference various definitions. Having a map that shows counties as definitely in or out gives the wrong impression. --JWB (talk) 11:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How's this? You have a valid point about the strength of the wording on the map caption. I changed the map image caption to read "is most commonly identified with". But the lack of a single published definition doesn't mean there's a problem with the map. Being north of Southern California, west of the Sierra crest, and south of the San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta is well-accepted, and directly constrains the area shown on the map. An issue we need to enumerate in the article is where it sometimes overlaps with Southern California in the San Joaquin Valley in some organizations' maps. But the article does already state the widest definition is the middle 1/3 of the state by latitude. Ikluft (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

what is the population of this region?

use latest estimate if possible like 2008. i need to know how many people live in this region 99.51.212.6 (talk) 07:14, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

the map does not show all counties in region

its missing Inyo and mono counties —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.212.6 (talk) 07:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regions can be tough to define by Wikipedia standards - it all depends on finding references. Can you find documentation that the residents or local governments consider themselves in Central California? Usually east of the crest of the Sierras is considered Eastern California. For the counties listed, there are some references in the Notes section. Feel free to add to it if you find sources. Relevant info: WP:N, WP:RS and WP:NEO Ikluft (talk) 09:47, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, as someone from Kern County, let me assure you we consider ourselves Central and not Southern. Even Britannica lists the Tehachapi Mountains as the southern edge of Central California. Thmazing (talk) 06:00, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Same - SLO County is DEFINITELY Central CA if you live there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.65.201.247 (talk) 22:23, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cen-Cal?

Who calls it cen-cal? I've hear of people using Nor-Cal and So-Cal for northern and southern California, but never Cen-Cal for central California. I've lived in several central California cities and never have I heard the term Cen-Cal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.170.96.104 (talk) 00:22, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No one but Wp.  I lived in S Ca 5 yrs, over 40 in N cal, no one calls it Cen Cal. In fact,Wp's borders are wrong by common usage.

Inaccurate

This map is not of Central Cal but of part of Central Valley. No one from CA does this. A proper map extends w to e, including the coast and mountains. BTW, Central is centered about Carmel, so you really must go equidirectional n and S to include it as well as E-W. Look at any Map of C Cal:http://www.discover-central-california.com/central-california-map.html

Even this is disputable. Most merely mean the central coast when they say C cal.184.99.130.134 (talk) 16:09, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not true. People may be talking about either the Central Coast or the Central Valley when they try to define Central California. Pf1127 (talk) 07:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Fundamental contradiction in definition of Central California

@Zzyzx11: I'm starting to carefully edit the article to remove material that violates our neutral point of view guideline, our reliable sources guideline, and our manual of style.

One factual dispute appears to be the exact definition of "Central California". JustSumVerySmartKids created a map that shows Central California stretching all of the way to the Nevada State line. This contradicts the previous map and the Eastern California article.

The definition of "Northern" or "Central" or "Eastern" California may not be precise enough to make maps. Do we have any reliable sources that defines "Central California"? For now, I'll revert the definition to the previous version of the article, but perhaps leave the map out until we can settle the dispute. — hike395 (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Schazjmd just reverted all of the edits back. I'll stop editing for now. I think it would be good to get some reliable sources for the definition of "Central California". — hike395 (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hike395, I had to. JSVSK's edits included Central California is considered to be in the middle of California that's why it's called Central Valley, Central California s known for cities like Fresno, Sacramento, Modesto, Stockton, Or Bakersfield Even Tho Bakersfield Is Actually Not Central California and lot of people often confuse Sacramento to be NorCal but it's not Norcal its Central California and The Central Coast Is The Most Beautiful Part Of Central California In My Opinion. I think it's beautiful because there is lots of cliffs that has beautiful views of the Pacific Ocean. Another reason is there is lots of trails to walk on and is really good for outdoor activities but remember the Weather usually is Foggy in the Fall - Summer so the most recommended time to go is Summer. The Final Reason is you can go Fishing, Swimming, Sailing, and a lot more because of the one and only Ocean. Well That's All About The Central Coast. and Central California Starts At 36th Parallel North And Ends Between The 38th & 39th Parallel North (unsourced) Schazjmd (talk) 17:03, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation. I would have cleaned/reverted those next, because of lack of WP:RS and WP:NPOV. But a consensus appears to be forming around full reversion, so I won't try to rescue the edits. — hike395 (talk) 17:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you'd like to go through their edit and restore any specific useful changes, go for it! (But verify) Schazjmd (talk) 17:26, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JustSumVerySmartKids made a new map which excludes Eastern California. But I worry that using any map would favor one particular definition over others, and it's clear from all of the references that there is no commonly-agreed-upon definition. I would propose not using any map in the infobox. — hike395 (talk) 21:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]